Select one quote that stood out to you the most in your reading of chapters 5-8. Post the quote you selected, and in a paragraph or so, respond to this quote. Your response might focus on: what the quote reveals to you about a character or a relationship, a personal connection you have to the quote, the language or craft of the writing and the impact that has on the quote, questions that arise from the quote, what the quote helps you visualize, words or phrases that stand out, inferences you are able to make, etc.
You also will respond to one other person's quote or response.
I'd only been in about two fights in my life, and I lost both of them. I'm not too tough. I'm a pacifist, if you want to know the truth."
ReplyDeleteThis quote showcases Holden's many contradictions: he says he's a pacifist, yet he attacks Stradlater for essentially no reason immediately before he says this. Also, i think that he is exaggerating his pacificity, in order to make it seem like he isn't weak. In this quote, Holden appears to be inventing things wildly to prevent any view of him as a wimp.
I agree with Leo, for someone who likes to judge people and hates people who are image obsessed, it is quite ironic how Holden wants people to think that he is not weak. This portrays Holden as someone who might be the very person he hates. Holden may be his own worst enemy, and he does not realize it.
DeleteI completely agree with Leo on this statement because of the truth behind it. Holden continues to state things such as he is a pacifist when really he is the exact opposite. Holden also claimed he hated movies, but shortly later he is seen going to the movies with his friends. Holden's strange bi polar opinions could maybe be a cause of him trying to be someone he isn't. I really want to see how this part of him plays out throughout the rest of the story.
Delete"Then I started reading this timetable I had in my pocket. Just to stop lying. Once I get started, I can go on for hours if I feel like it. No kidding. Hours." Page 58. This quote captures Holden's attitude toward lying. He enjoys it and has trouble stopping once he starts, but he seems to only lie if he believes it is beneficial to the person he is lying too. Holden probably thinks that Mrs. Morrow would be devastated if she heard what her son was really like, so in Holden's eyes, he is not being phony. Phoniness is his biggest pet peeve.
ReplyDeleteHolden always seems to regret lying even as he's doing it yet he repeatedly lies. This is similar to his hate for the movies yet he goes to them. I'm not quite sure why Holden feels the need to lie as often as he does. For instance when he was talking to the women on the bus and leading her on about his son there were all sorts of other things he could've talked about without lying but he instead chose to lie.
DeleteFrom this quote you can tell that Holden has a lot of experience in lying and has been lying for quite some time. For that reason he has trouble stopping. Although he has trouble stopping he tries to stop lying to Mrs. Morrow by reading his "timetable". Which shows us that Holden admits to his foible and by trying to stop. His decision shows us that he didn't want to lie to Mrs. Morrow.
DeleteThis quote shows that Holden often lies without really thinking about the consequences lying might bring, or about the fact that once he starts he has a difficult time stopping. Also, Holden sometimes lies and then realizes that he really shouldn't be lying. This is why in this quote Holden starts reading the "timetable he has in his pocket". Reading the timetable is Holden's attempt at trying to stop lying after he started and realized that it was wrong.
DeleteI believe we have touched on an example of Holden putting himself on a pedestal. Although Holden hates people who are not genuine above all else, he lies to Mrs. Morrow for the duration of their ride together. Holden unjustly feels as though his own phoniness is forgivable, while that of others is an abomination. Holden seems to believe that it is the world, not himself, that is defective and needs to change. I firmly believe that Holden will not find peace until he recognizes this in himself and learns to adjust to the world.
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ReplyDelete"I didn't even answer him. God, how I hated him." -Holden, page 42, talking about Stradlater.
I found this quote interesting because Stradlater is one of the few boys on campus that Holden likes, but he still has extremely negative thoughts similar to these about him. It gives us great insight towards Holden. As we have already noticed, Holden is pessimistic and a rebel, but this quote shines a light on his perspective. This reveals the true nature of Holden's relationship with Stradlater. They did not truly enjoy each other's company, but they simply put up with one another as roommates. Here, we see the two of them finally crack and let loose their frustration. I can not blame either one of them, it's a terrible thing to keep feelings pent up for a long time. Holden found an immediate solution by packing up, but his cavalier attitude will get him in trouble in the future.
I couldn't agree more with Tim. Up until this point Holden has not shown his true feelings for Stradlater other than that they put up with each other. This quote shows that like many other things, Holden has a very negative view of him this seems like the first time that Holden has expressed his real feelings about Stradlater. The only thing I do not agree with is how Tim implied that Stradlater disliked Holden. I think that, while he may not like Holden, he does't dislike him. He just thinks Holden is a little weird but tolerable.
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ReplyDelete"I didn't even answer him. God, how I hated him." -Holden, page 42, talking about Stradlater.
I found this quote interesting because Stradlater is one of the few boys on campus that Holden likes, but he still has extremely negative thoughts similar to these about him. It gives us great insight towards Holden. As we have already noticed, Holden is pessimistic and a rebel, but this quote shines a light on his perspective. This reveals the true nature of Holden's relationship with Stradlater. They did not truly enjoy each other's company, but they simply put up with one another as roommates. Here, we see the two of them finally crack and let loose their frustration. I can not blame either one of them, it's a terrible thing to keep feelings pent up for a long time. Holden found an immediate solution by packing up, but his cavalier attitude will get him in trouble in the future.
"You'd have liked him." P. 38
ReplyDeleteI always get this sense that The Catcher In The Rye is directed at a specific person and not just us as the reader. When Holden says, "You'd have liked him" he's clearly talking to a certain person and not the general reader. It's not clear who he's talking to though, because he always refers to the person he's talking to as "you." When Holden starts off the book with a similar phrase and then he goes into the past to describe his life it seems to me that at the end of the book we will meet the ominous character referred to as "you." Along with the ominous "you" often comes Holden's irritation at telling the story of his life. This is very intriguing to me because it makes me think that "you" is almost making Holden tell the story and that makes me want to learn who this person is.
" I liked her, though. I was beginning to feel sort of sorry I'd told her my name was Rudolf Schmidt" pg. 56
ReplyDeleteThis quote shows how quickly Holden can get to know some people and judge them by having a conversation with them. Mrs. Morrow also shows concern for Holden, which impacts Holden to feel bad abut lying to Mrs. Marrow. "I liked her, though" the tone is of one regret, he regrets not telling her his name. Also from Mrs. Morrow and Holden's conversation, it feels like Holden is trying to play with Mrs. Morrow's mind, because he is still angry about what happened with Stradlater.
"He's dead now. He got leukemia and died when we were up in Maine" (p.38)
ReplyDelete- This quote came as a surprise to me when I was reading because of the fact that Holden is very nonchalant about the tragedy when he talks with the reader. This lack of internal empathy that seems to be within him is interesting for it defines his humanity. This quick statement which is thrown into conversation casually is done like any other would do it, for he has dealt with the anger and sadness that comes with death and he does not wish to live the horror of his prior life. I feel this style of how he presents this news shows he does not want other people's pity or sorrow because that only annoys the person who actually experienced the tragedy, for if the reader becomes sad then it becomes Holden's problem to comfort someone who did not even have a brother die. Humanity is defined by how we socially represent our lives and how we present our emotions and Holden is unlike any other.
"You don't do one damn thing the way you're suppossed to. I mean it. Not one damn thing."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because I thought that being told by someone that you never do anything right is a relatable experience. In this quote, Stradlater is yelling at Holden because instead of writing him a descriptive composition about a house or a room or something, Holden chose to write it about his brother's baseball glove. The choice that Holden made to do something differently than he was told shows that he isn't afraid to take chances and do what he wants. However, Stradlater yelling at him shows that sometimes doing things the way you want to can backfire on you. I feel like this is relatable, because people often chose to do things the way they want to, but then others get mad at them. Other people often get mad because the person they asked to do something didn't follow the exact directions and do precisely what they were told.
ReplyDelete"Almost every time somebody gives me a present, it ends up making me sad." Page 52 Paragraph 1.
This quote makes the reader terribly sad. Whenever I think of presents, happy memories come to mind: my birthday, Christmas, and other very delightful times. However, Holden says he feels sad when he receives presents. The background of the situation is Holden packing his bag to leave Pencey. He comes across new skates his mother bought him just a few days before. The reason Holden is so sad when he looks at this new present is because he knows he has to go home and tell his parents that he got kicked out of yet another school. He hates the disappointment he will bring his parents. This present is a reminder that he failed, once again.
I agree with Devin. This quote shows just how badly Holden feels about himself. Rather than feeling happiness when receiving a present, as most would, Holden feels sad. This is because Holden doesn't feel as though he deserves them. I think that Holden feels so negative about himself, he feels as though he hasn't earned a reward. Holden's sadness stems from his frustration that, in his eyes, he continues to fail again and again, and Holden knows that the presents his friends and relatives give him are not deserved.
DeleteI agree with Devin, also, this quote shows that Holden truly does care about his parents and his life; however, he has yet to do anything to change that. He doesn't do his work and has flunked out of every school he has been to. His actions are quite puzzling if you know what he is thinking. One thing that keeps me thinking is how he sold his typewriter, which was an expensive item and his parents will be disappointed in him for it. Holden continues on his stubborn ways, yet continues to feel sorry for himself. He is quite the mind-boggling character; every time I think he will do one thing, he does the complete opposite. It will be interesting to see if this continues to ensue for the duration of the book, or if he grows up and gets a hold on his life.
Delete"You don't do one damn thing the way you're supposed to. I mean it. Not one damn thing."
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because I thought that being told by someone that you never do anything right is a relatable experience. In this quote, Stradlater is yelling at Holden because instead of writing him a descriptive composition about a house or a room or something, Holden chose to write it about his brother's baseball glove. The choice that Holden made to do something differently than he was told to shows that he isn't afraid to take chances and do what he wants. However, Stradlater yelling at him shows that sometimes doing things the way you want to can backfire on you. This is relatable because often when people tell you to do something a specific way, and you do it based on how you want to, they get angry because you didn't do it exactly the way they wanted you to.
"It took him about five hours to get ready."- Page 36
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me specifically because exaggerations like this are commonly seen throughout the story when Holden is trying to describe something. Holden's extension of the truth is his way of trying to get an image across to us. Even though the way he pictures it is a little off course of what it really may be, you still can bind together what he is trying to say and get an image of what it really is. For instance in this quote, Holden is describing how long Ackley is taking to get ready to go out to the movies. Holden says how it takes about five hours for him to be ready, when really it was probably only 20 minutes. Though Holden's descriptions throughout this story may be different then they actually are, it is a fun way to get details from the story as well as picture it.
"And died when we were up in Maine... You'd have liked him. He was two years younger than I was, but he was about fifty times as intelligent." Page 38
ReplyDeleteIn this quote, Holden talks about his brother. The tone he uses when talking about and describing his brother is very positive, and it is one of the first instances in the book in which Holden seems happy about the subject he is talking about. One of the qualities Holden describes in Allie is his extreme intelligence, as well as his over all love for life, shown through his willingness to laugh at everything, etcetera. I think the reason Holden admired his brother is because he had qualities Holden doesn't: he was very smart (although Holden seems to be very smart as well), he was very positive, and his teachers adored him. Holden can't seem to master those qualities for himself, and he admired and liked his brother for those qualities. Also, in the quote, Holden addresses the person he is talking to as "you," suggesting he is talking to a singular, specific person, so he possibly isn't taking to a reader, by a person.
"I had her glued to her seat. You take somebody's mother, all they
ReplyDeletewant to hear is what a hot-shot their son is." pg 56. Holden's
conversation with Ernie's mother shows what a terrific liar Holden
really is. However, Holden's personality comes into question because
lying to someone to make them feel good does not make him a bad
person, but it shows that he is a hypocrite. The conversation also
proved that Holden cannot have a pleasant conversation with someone
without spinning a web of lies, just to look good. Holden's true
feelings about Ernie were the opposite of modest, and "hot-shot,"
making him the "phony" once again.
What Parker is saying here is very true. Holden talks all the time about how he hates phony and fake people, when most of the time he acts like one himself. In Holden's defense, it is very rare he will ever see that woman again and it would have made the conversation very uncomfortable for both of them if Holden had come out and said the truth about his feelings towards Ernie. The woman would have felt offended and wouldn't have believed anything Holden was saying. Also, Holden was most likely bored and lonely going back home and needed something to talk about.
DeleteHolden is a great liar and he is lying so he can maintain a happy conversation with Ernie's mother, but he is not being a hypocrite. Holden's description of Ernie gives the perception that he is not very interesting, he has one side to himself which is a side that manifests in being a jerk without cause, and this is why Holden hates Ernie and wants to fool his mother. Holden maintains his beliefs because of the fact that he dislikes Ernie , and in his conversation with Ernie's mother he lies to joke about Ernie to himself. This joke is the fact that at Pencey Ernie does not at all try to be anything like what Holden and Ernie's mother are saying about him. This amuses Holden greatly and keeps with his tradition of trying to keep himself separate from phonies like Ernie.
DeleteIn response to Rachel's quote: "And died when we were up in Maine... You'd have liked him. He was two years younger than I was, but he was about fifty times as intelligent." Page 38, I very much agree. To add on to this, I think that Holden idolizes his deceased brother. I think in some ways he is everything that Holden is not, or cannot be. Holden describes Allie as intelligent, and an incredibly nice boy. In a way he is the exact opposite of Holden. Everything Holden wished could be, but never was. I think this is one of the main reasons Holden idolizes his dead brother so much. He sees such untainted, pure good in this memory; something he doesn't see living in his cynical world. It's hard not to look up to someone like that.
ReplyDeleteYou make a strong point here. Just as we examined in Caitlin Flanagan's essay, it can be difficult to look at a deceased loved one's memory objectively. What other figures in the book does Holden admire? Do they share a commonality?
DeleteAfter reading this quote, i realized that Holden probably didn't appreciate his brother this much when he was alive. It seems like Holden's idolizing of Allie is exaggerated, like many of his other statements and opinions in the book. It seems highly unlikely that Allie was ever as saintly as Holden proclaims
Delete"Almost every time somebody gives me a present, it ends up making me sad." Page 52
ReplyDeleteFor regular people, receiving presents is a fun and exciting time; however, for Holden, receiving presents causes him sadness. This quote makes me feel for Holden, imagine how sad it would be to not be happy to open presents. When examining the backstory of this quote, you can tell that the main reason that Holden is informing the reader of his feeling towards receiving gifts is that he is anxiously and nervously awaiting when he has to tell his mother that he has been kicked out of yet another school. He felt bad for her since she had just purchased him these brand new skates that will now not be used because he will no longer be attending Pency. The reader begins to pick up on details such as these that hit at a Holden that is much different from the one that he allows others to see.
Why do you think that receiving gifts makes Holden feel so depressed? Aside from his getting kicked out of school, why would gifts make him feel sad in general?
Delete"He was finished cutting his damn toenails. So he got up from the bed,
ReplyDeletein just his damn shorts and all, and started getting very damn
playful." (Page 42)
This quote is one of the many examples of how unnecessarily angry
Holden's tone is towards many people. From what I've read so far in
The Catcher And The Rye, he seems to get very annoyed with many
peoples small mistakes or foibles in social situations or in
conversations with him. In the quote above, he says "damn" as the most
commonly used adjectives towards almost everything that Stradlater was
doing. His bitter and irritated tone of voice was used when describing
actions that are very simplistic and not at all irritating. This
exemplifies how not only Holden's tone is angry, but he is just a very
bitter person towards others. This very specific crude word choice
clearly expresses Holden's irritated tone of voice and his bitter
personality towards others.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"I'd only been in about two fights in my life, and I lost both of them. I'm not too tough. I'm a pacifist, if you want to know the truth." Pages 45-46. It seems ironic that Holden is making this statement because he engages in a fight with Stradlater twice in the same night. Even if he does not usually fight, I seems hoity toity to claim he is a pacifist especially after he has just initiated two fights with Stradlater. Stradlater did go on a date with Jane, but Holden seems very belligerent about the matter. It does not seem justified for Holden to call him self a pacifist after he has been very aggressive. (Response to another person's, Leo's, quote)
ReplyDelete"Her son was doubtless the biggest bastard that ever went to Pencey... He was always going down the corridor after he'd had a shower, snapping his soggy old wet towel at people's asses."
ReplyDeletePage 54
This quote showcases two examples of Holden's gift for hyperbole. Although Holden claims that Ernest Morrow was "always" acting inappropriately amongst the other boys at Pencey, we as readers can discern that this is false. At this point in the book, it is clear that Holden is an unreliable narrator, and is prone to exaggeration. More than likely, Holden witnessed an incident of this nature on one occasion, and as he is notorious for, based his entire undying opinion of Ernest on this incident. In addition to this, Holden declares that Ernest is "doubtless the biggest bastard that ever went to Pencey." To accuse Ernest Morrow of being the worst person ever to attend Pencey is an extreme exaggeration. Because Holden fails to present evidence beyond Ernest's disorderly conduct in the hallways, readers may disregard his original accusation.
"He's dead now. He got leukemia and died when we were up in Maine" (p.38)
ReplyDelete- This quote came as a surprise to me when I was reading because of the fact that Holden is very nonchalant about the tragedy when he talks with the reader. This lack of internal empathy that seems to be within him is interesting for it defines his humanity. This quick statement which is thrown into conversation casually is done like any other would do it, for he has dealt with the anger and sadness that comes with death and he does not wish to live the horror of his prior life. I feel this style of how he presents this news shows he does not want other people's pity or sorrow because that only annoys the person who actually experienced the tragedy, for if the reader becomes sad then it becomes Holden's problem to comfort someone who did not even have a brother die. Humanity is defined by how we socially represent our lives and how we present our emotions and Holden is unlike any other.
I have a very similar response to this quote, although when I had first read it, I didn't think about it being a symbol of his humanity. I took it very similarly to how, in the very beginning of the book, Holden passed off the idea of talking about his parents. Holden seems to have a tendency to take painful memories or ideas and speak of them like they are no big deal, but I think he does this to mask the pain, like in the essay we read about Girl Land. The author wrote about hiding her mother's belongings in her drawers so she didn't have to think about them, and I think this is just Holden's method of essentially doing the same thing.
DeleteI agree with your argument, however, I feel that Holden is acting "tough" as a coping mechanism. When Holden talks about his brother, he seems to idolize him. He reminisces about his astonishing intelligence when he mentions the catchers mitt. As mentioned above, we see a similar attitude in Ms. Flanagan's essay. Perhaps Holden was unaware of Allie's talent until after his death. Holden is emotionally scared by this event, and his actions prove it.
DeleteI'll tell you what kind of red hair he had." said by Holden on page
ReplyDelete38. Describing physical appearance of a character is effective in
developing an image of he or she in a readers head. The author of
Catcher in the Rye uses the relationship between a characters outward
appearance and characteristics of personality to create a more in
depth description. When Holden says "I'll tell you what kind of red
hair he had," he then goes on to tell the reader about how when he
would go golfing, his brother would always be there to watch him.
Holden has this memory which he can seen his brothers red hair, but
the memory also comes with remembering how sweet of a brother Allie
was a part of his personality.
I'll tell you what kind of red hair he had." said by Holden on page
ReplyDelete38. Describing physical appearance of a character is effective in
developing an image of he or she in a readers head. The author of
Catcher in the Rye uses the relationship between a characters outward
appearance and characteristics of personality to create a more in
depth description. When Holden says "I'll tell you what kind of red
hair he had," he then goes on to tell the reader about how when he
would go golfing, his brother would always be there to watch him.
Holden has this memory which he can seen his brothers red hair, but
the memory also comes with remembering how sweet of a brother Allie
was, a part of his personality.
" I slept in the garage the night he died... I punched every window out just for the hell of it."
ReplyDeleteThis quote was a surprise to the reader as it is the first time we see a weakness with Holden. Allie's passing was a traumatic event in Holden's life. As he savors the memories of his brother, I couldn't help but wonder how Holden would be if his brother had not died. I believe that his pessimistic attitude on life is a direct cause from the death. When he talks about his brother, he idolizes his intelligence and how unfair it is. He uses his "tough" attitude with a combination of cynicism in order to compensate with the death. The night in the garage is the beginning of the "new" Holden
"But I'll bet, after all the crap I shot, Mrs. Morrow'll keep thinking of him now as this very shy, modest guy..." (p. 57)
ReplyDeleteThroughout reading this entire scene with Holden and Mrs. Morrow, I was thinking of Holden as somewhat of a jerk. I thought he was just lying to Mrs. Morrow for kicks, but this quote shows that he may have been doing it for the benefit of Mrs. Morrow or even Earnie, to make her happy. This event is somewhat of a repeat of when Holden was lying to his teacher to make him not feel bad about flunking him. Holden lied to his teacher for the sake of his teacher, not himself. Similarly, Holden was lying to Mrs. Morrow to make her feel better about her son, who she previously may not have thought of as such a great kid.
“He’s dead now…He was two years younger than I was, but he was about fifty times as intelligent.” (p. 38) This was very interesting to me. At first glance, I was surprised at how nonchalant Holden was about talking about his younger brother, Allie’s, death; however, as I continued on to read I noticed a softer, kinder side of Holden. The way he talks about his brother shows how much he truly cared about him, which is very different from his normal negative thoughts. In contrast to how he describes other characters from the book, Holden puts Allie on a pedestal; however, when someone is gone forever, people tend to remember only the good memories. While reading this quote, my interpretation of it shifted. In the beginning, I was surprised at Holden’s blunt statement, but after reading Holden’s full description of Allie, I am more understanding.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteNick Pellechia
"I put my red hunting hat on, and turned the peak around to the back, the way I liked it, and then I yelled at the top of my goddam voice, 'Sleep tight ya morons!'"
This reveals Holden's ultimate attitude of Pencey and the students that attend this Prep school. Holden strongly dislikes the character of the people who go to Pencey and what is produced from going there: splendid and clear thinking boys. Maybe the boys who attend Pencey don't end up like this, but Holden just hates this idea. To him, people like this are "morons." Most of the time, however, the other students don't do much wrong or deserve be called a moron. They are extremely stereotyped by Holden and get labels placed on them all the time like "snobby" or "phony." This is ironic because It is obvious that Holden is phony. This act of labeling Is also unjust because Holden, most of the time, hardly even knows the people he judges or is only familiar with one instance of Interacting with them. Holden yelling "Sleep tight ya morons" is also unjust because it is really him, Holden, who is the moron for judging, being phony, and practically getting himself expelled with immature behavior.
"all they want to hear about is what a hot-shot their son is" pg 56
ReplyDeleteThis quote depicts the reality of parents everywhere. The majority of parents probably do not want to hear about their child's bad qualities. When any person informs a parent about their child's poor behavior, it can come as a great surprise and can potentially upset the parent. Learning bad things about their child may cause a parent to feel as if they did not raise their child very well and could cause self doubt. In my personal experience, parents and children only reflect on the positive qualities of the child when talking to the child's parent. -Katie Ewald
In some ways, I agree with Katie and her opinion on this quote; however, I think it is wrong of Holden to make such a snap judgment of people. Although this remark about mothers may be true, there are mothers out there who would be upset if they knew that whomever they were talking to was lying to them about her child. In my opinion, this comment representative of how Holden is quick to judge, and how he assumes things about people that may not be true. Also, one can tell from reading this passage that Holden is quite at ease with making these decisions about people, and that he most likely does it often.
Delete"I slept in the garage the night he died, and I broke all the goddam windows with my fist just for the hell of it." I think that this quote is the first part of the book where Holden really reveals what type of person he is. The majority of what we have learned about him is what he hates. This quote shows that he loved Allie very dearly and that his death may have had a very significant lasting effect on Holden. This is a possible reason for Holden's pessimistic attitude and indifference towards his parents.
ReplyDelete"I slept in the garage the night he died, and I broke all the goddam windows with my fist just for the hell of it." I think that this quote is the first part of the book where Holden really reveals what type of person he is. The majority of what we have learned about him is what he hates. This quote shows that he loved Allie very dearly and that his death may have had a very significant lasting effect on Holden. This is a possible reason for Holden's pessimistic attitude and indifference towards his parents.
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