Select one quote that stood out to you the most in your reading of chapters 5-8. Post the quote you selected, and in a paragraph or so, respond to this quote. Your response might focus on: what the quote reveals to you about a character or a relationship, a personal connection you have to the quote, the language or craft of the writing and the impact that has on the quote, questions that arise from the quote, what the quote helps you visualize, words or phrases that stand out, inferences you are able to make, etc.
You also will respond to one other person's quote or response.
"'Oh, how nice!' the lady said. But not corny. She was just nice and all."
ReplyDeleteHolden seems to like Ernest Morrow's mother and appreciates that she is not "corny". This is rather puzzling, since no details are provided that show how or why her words seem genuine. I would have thought Holden would dislike her, especially because he says earlier that she has a "nice telephone voice". This description is akin to the earlier description of Stradlater as a yearbook kind of handsome: it gives the impression that Morrow's mother is superficial and phony. And she never says anything especially ingenuous, only engaging in the usual pleasantries. It is difficult to discern why Holden likes her so much when she doesn't seem much different from the other "phonies".
I agree, it seems peculiar that Holden would label the others as phonies when this lady, who he seems to be fond of, is similar to the others. Holden seems to have many times where he contradicts things that he states earlier in the book. For instance, not liking the movies, but going out with a couple of friends to see a movie. And other examples similar to that. It seems strange to me that he can be so harsh on others in his mind, but never be harsh on himself. Most people in society are very harsh on themselves.
Delete
DeleteI share Lily's sentiment regarding Holden's appreciation of Morrow's mother. She did nothing but ask the usual questions, and seemingly ate up all Holden's "crap" about her son. She was nothing if not the average mother who believed anything and everything positive about her beloved son. I would have assumed that Holden would dislike this kind of biased, love blinded, and gullible behavior, especially coming from a woman with a generic "telephone voice".
"...I did it to annoy Stradlater. It drove him crazy when you broke any rules."
ReplyDeleteBased upon previous descriptions of Stradlater, it surprises me that he's such a follower of rules. It also seems generous of Holden to say so. Holden seems only to describe the worst qualities of any person in question with few exceptions; he has very distinct opinions about the actions and beliefs of others. While his goal in breaking the rules is to annoy Stradlater (an action true to Holden's personality), Holden's implication that Stradlater is a good person in that he follows the rules strictly surprised me.
I didn't find it surprising that Stradlater was concerned about the
Deleterules. Stradlater is characterized as the type of person who cares
about his appearance and reputation. For instance, when Holden is
writing his english paper, he makes sure to clarify that he's only bad
at writing because of his comma usage. Stradlater wouldn't be the type
of person who would want to get in trouble and taint his reputation,
which is why he asks Holden to stop
"Sleep tight, ya morons!" I'll bet I woke up every bastard on the whole floor. Then I got the Hell out.
ReplyDeleteEarlier in the book, Holden explains to the reader that the worst way to leave somewhere is to do so without knowing that you will never return. He explains that the best way to leave a place is to have a proper goodbye and to leave knowing it is for good. I think that Holden has an interesting way to say goodbye to this school. His goodbye is very bitter, especially because he had just gotten into a fight with his roommate Stradlater. However, I infer that the reason for Holden leaving on such a bitter note, is more than because he was in a fight. Holden never really enjoyed going to Pencey Prep or the people in it. Holden was letting everyone know this fact as he left for good.
"I slept in the garage the night he died, and I broke all the goddam windows with my fist, just for the hell of it. I even tried to break all the windows on the station wagon we had that summer..." In this section Holden is telling how he coped with his brothers death. Everyone has different ways they mourn, or they deal with sadness. Holden becoming angry and breaking the windows in his garage was his way of dealing with his brothers death. When Holden speaks of his brother, it seems as if he really loved his brother; they were close to each other. Holden doesn't come out and say he was upset, and I think this is because he doesn't want to seem weak or vulnerable.
ReplyDelete"'That's just the trouble with all you morons. You never want to discuss anything. That's the way can always tell a moron. They never want to discuss anything intellig...'"
ReplyDeleteDuring his fight with Stradlater, Holden gave out his "standards" for being a moron. According to him,. a moron would not reply to questions, and even if they do, it would be short, most likely an one-word answer. Holden's statement gave the readers a ledge to step on, a step higher closer to connect better with Holden. By knowing his dislikes about a person, some readers might realize Holden's a lot similar to themselves( at least I did). Another factor brought in by the quoted text was the foreshadowing of upcoming characters. Readers, now thinking the way Holden did, can tell even without the first person how exactly Holden felt toward another person. Overall, Holden's insult to Stradlater actually gave the readers a boost on to find out more about Holden's complex personalities, which technically, is what this book is all about.
"I mean I'm not going to be a goddam surgeon or a violinist or anything anyway."
ReplyDeleteThis quote shows a new side of Holden's personality and character. From the way that he has been characterized in the beginning of the book, Holden thinks of himself as above others. There have been many examples of Holden judging others in a manner that portrays him as superior. Holden often talks about other people, especially Ackley, in a condescending manner. This quote was the first time that Holden has talked about himself in the same tone he uses to talk about those he feels above. This quote shows that Holden's dismal opinion about others is similar to how he feels about himself and his future. It was surprising to hear such an unmotivated, negative statement from Holden about himself.
In response to Lily's post: I agree that it is difficult to understand why Holden likes Ernest Morrow's mother when she is it very different from other "phonies", and I think it reveals something more about his character. As Lily mentioned, Holden talked about Stradlater being a yearbook kind of handsome, showing that Holden notices physical attributes. Holden also talked about Ernest's mother's looks, which shows that he notices the physics characteristics of people and judges them based on that. Holden likes the way that Ernest's mother looks and based on that, he feels that he can determine that she is not a phony.
"For Chrissake, Holden. This is about a goddamn baseball glove." In this quote, Stradlater is becoming angry at Holden for writing the composition about a baseball glove instead of a room. Stradlater has no right to become angry at Holden, because Stradlater should be writing it himself. Holden was doing Stradlater a favor, although he didn't do it correctly. Stradlater is cheating himself, lying about who he is as a writer. Stradlater is being a "phony" by making Holden do his work for him, because he is pretending to be a writer that he is not. He also made an excuse in a previous chapter as to why he wasn't a good writer; he said he didn't put all of the commas in the right places. He instructed Holden to not put the commas in the right places when he was writing the composition, for that would make it seem like his work. This is a phony action that Stradlater performed. He was being a phony when making an excuse as to why his writing wasn't as good as Holden's, and also by having Holden write the composition rather than writing it himself,
ReplyDeleteI agree that Stradlater was acting extremely out of place when he scolded Holden for doing his homework "wrong". For one, Stradlater's instructions were very vague. He wanted Holden to describe something in great detail, like a house or a room. However, Holden, deciding it would be easier to write something with a lot of meaning to him, I assume, wrote about his deceased brother's baseball mitt. The fact that it took Holden a lot of time and effort to complete this composition makes Stradlater appear to be extremely shallow. Secondly, because Stradlater's favor for Holden was to cheat for him, it only further made Stradlater appear to be fake and deceiving. Moreover, the brazen Stradlater even had the nerve to request that Holden places commas in the wrong spot, so it would look more like Stradlater wrote the paper. Therefore, because Stradlater didn't even feel an ounce of guilt for his lying and cheating, this instance, in my opinion, characterizes Stradlater, as the epitome of phoniness.
DeleteQuote response
ReplyDeleteCara Kelley
"One thing about packing depressed me a little. I had to pack these brand-new ice skates my mother had practically just sent me a couple days before. That depressed me. I could see my mother going into Spaulding's and asking a million dopy questions- and here I was getting the ax again. It made me feel pretty sad."
In The Catcher In The Rye so far, we have seen the main character, Holden, as provocative, frank, and often rude within his commentary. Holden often refers to others as a "sonuvabitch," or a "moron," and shows little to no empathy for anyone but himself. Through this quote, the reader is exposed to a new side of Holden; one with sympathy for others. Although Holden may keep these feelings locked away, it now sets an idea for the reader that maybe Holden isn't as cold as he makes himself appear. One may learn through this quote, that people are not always what they seem, and with their actions, they may surprise you.
Quote response
ReplyDeleteCara Kelley
"One thing about packing depressed me a little. I had to pack these brand-new ice skates my mother had practically just sent me a couple days before. That depressed me. I could see my mother going into Spaulding's and asking a million dopy questions- and here I was getting the ax again. It made me feel pretty sad."
In The Catcher In The Rye so far, we have seen the main character, Holden, as provocative, frank, and often rude within his commentary. Holden often refers to others as a "sonuvabitch," or a "moron," and shows little to no empathy for anyone but himself. Through this quote, the reader is exposed to a new side of Holden; one with sympathy for others. Although Holden may keep these feelings locked away, it now sets an idea for the reader that maybe Holden isn't as cold as he makes himself appear. One may learn through this quote, that people are not always what they seem, and with their actions, they may surprise you.
"I had to pack these brand-new ice skates my mother had practically just sent me a couple of days before. That depressed me. I could see my mother going in Spaulding's and asking the salesman a million dopy questions--and here I was getting the ax again." (Page 52)
ReplyDeleteThis "deprssion" that Holden experiences is a stark contrast to how he depicts his relationship with his mother earlier in the book. In the first chapter of the novel, Holden seems to not like his parents very much, which contradicts the feeling of disappointment that he has while packing his skates. While packing, Holden seems to feel like he let his mother down by "getting the ax again" just days after receiving his ice skates. This is the first time we have seen Holden appear genuinely disappointed about being expelled, and this feeling is not something I would have expected given Holden's prior actions and descriptions of his childhood.
"'Pency? It's not too bad. It's not a paradise or anything, but it's as good as most schools. Some of the faculty are pretty conscientious.'"
ReplyDeleteThis quote seems to be a direct contradiction to Holden's apparent hatred of all things phony. He is no big fan of Pency, and in his first statement, it appears that he is being truthful by saying that it is not too bad. However, he goes on to say that some of the faculty is "conscientious". This statement demonstrates exactly what Holden finds infuriating about people: the tendency to say and do things that are fake and phony. Even his word choice of "conscientious" seems fake, as the Holden that we know would never use that word in his normal, everyday language. Holden is unconsciously, or maybe consciously, changing the way he talks and acts to fit what he thinks the woman expects or desires. He behaves in this fashion even before he starts "shooting crap", settling into a kind of attitude that is not his natural one as if settling into a new skin.
"I had to pack these brand-new ice skates my mother had practically just sent me a couple of days before. That depressed me. I could see my mother going in Spaulding's and asking the salesman a million dopy questions--and here I was getting the ax again." (Page 52)
ReplyDeleteThis "deprssion" that Holden experiences is a stark contrast to how he depicts his relationship with his mother earlier in the book. In the first chapter of the novel, Holden seems to not like his parents very much, which contradicts the feeling of disappointment that he has while packing his skates. While packing, Holden seems to feel like he let his mother down by "getting the ax again" just days after receiving his ice skates. This is the first time we have seen Holden appear genuinely disappointed about being expelled, and this feeling is not something I would have expected given Holden's prior actions and descriptions of his childhood.
"I didn't answer him. All I did was, I got up and went over and looked
ReplyDeleteout the window. I felt so lonesome, all of the sudden. I almost wished
I was dead."
This particular quote stood out to me because it's the first time the
reader has seen Holden display true vulnerability. He expresses this
thought to the reader after recalling how he ignored Ackely's question
about what Holden and Stradlater's fight was about. The reader can
imply that Holden is deeply upset about the fight he had, and this is
the first time he expresses regret or sorrow over his life decisions.
In all other chapters, he seems, okay with the fact that he is getting
kicked out of boarding school. However, since he explains that he,
"almost wished [he] was dead", after being prompted about the
reasoning behind his fight, it is clear that he is feeling so defeated
because he has lost his place of academic work and the companionship
of his friend. I also believe that Holden feels upset that he is
forced to resort to Ackely's company, since he previously refers of
Ackley as annoying and un-liked.
"He stood there, reading it, and sort of stroking his bare chest and stomach, with this very stupid expression on his face."
ReplyDeleteAfter Stradlater has returned from his night out with Jane, Holden begins to describe his roommate's actions in a very contemptuous manner. Readers can pick up feelings of jealousy and
frustration that Holden is experiencing before he and Stradlater even begin to interact. Since Holden is aware that Stradlater may have taken advantage of a girl he had feelings for, every single thing that Stradlater does bothers him. Holden begins their interaction by acting very condescending when he mentally responds to Stradlater's question, "Where the hell is everybody? It's like a goddamn morgue around here." Holden relays to his audience that "If he was so goddamn stupid not to realize it was Saturday night and everybody was out or asleep or home for the weekend," Holden wasn't going to "break his neck" informing him. Evidently, Holden is envious of his roommate and doesn't even let him get away with scratching his stomach without some critical commentary, illustrating the stark contrast between Holden's thoughts and his actions. However, what we ultimately learn about Holden through this quote is the misanthropic view he will hold over a person once they do him wrong.
"My brother Allie had this left-handed fielder's mitt... he had poems written all over the fingers and the pocket and everywhere... so that he'd have something to read when he was in the field and nobody was up at bat. He's dead now."
ReplyDeleteThis quote is simply shocking in itself. It seems as if Holden is telling an ordinary story at first, but it quickly becomes much more solemn when he abruptly states that Allie is dead. It's even more startling seeing how Allie is described as being intellectual, how he could've had a bright future ahead of him. It's certainly possible that Holden feels a significant amount of guilt because of how he's wasting the life that Allie didn't get to enjoy.
"You don't do one damn thing the way you're supposed to. I mean it. Not one damn thing." - Stradlater.
ReplyDeleteHolden is a boy who is very unpredictable and hard to depend on. He is very stubborn, and will only do things well if they are his way. Holden is failing school, but when he is given the choice to write about what he wants, he exceeds in doing so. Stradlater is furious at Holden because he chose to write about an object that symbolized the personality of his deceased brother. Holden did not do what he was told and follow the prompt Stradlater gave him. Holden is not a boy who follows the rules and the established order of society. His peers, particularly Stradlater, look down upon Holden for acting out of his own accord. Many see Holden's actions as not being able to do anything right. Holden is a boy who does not tolerate being told what to do and acts immediatly according to what he is feeling. I admire Holden for these traits.
"Almost every time somebody gives me a present, it ends up making me sad." (pg 52)
ReplyDeleteInitially, I found this quote quite ironic. Without any background knowledge of Holden, it would seem rather peculiar for a person to be sad when receiving a gift, considering gifts and presents are supposed to generate happiness; however, Holden states that, for some reason, presents always end up upsetting him, a stark contrast from the typical present-opening reaction. For example, Holden mentioned that it depressed him that his mother had just recently purchased and sent him brand new ice skates, bearing in mind that he just gotten expelled from school again. Therefore, in the light of his multiple expulsions, plus Holden's other faults, I came to the conclusion that Holden actually feels ashamed whenever he is given a present. I believe that he feels this shamefulness because he doesn't think that he is deserving of the presents when taking into account of all the poor decisions he has made. Consequently, when his mother, or anyone for that matter, gives him a present, it makes Holden feel even more guilty for all his mistakes, therefore further damaging his self-esteem and making the act of receiving a present a more dreadful experience.
"...and then I tried to sock him, with all of my might, right smack in the toothbrush, so it would split his goddam throat open." (page 43)
ReplyDeleteI was very surprised reading this sentence describing Holden's violence towards Stradlater. Holden usually has a good filter, and even though he may think about some mean thoughts towards others, he'll say what they want to hear, and then keep most of his opinions to himself. In the case of Stradlater and Jane, however, Holden lets his emotions take over his better judgment and they drive him to punch Stradlater in the face. It was also interesting to see that the one thing that Holden cares about enough to show his true feelings about is this girl, Jane. The only other event that seems to have mad Holden let out his emotions is when his rother died and he punched out all of the windows. These two events prove that even though Holden is good at hiding his feelings, he does care.